On the podcast today, I interviewed two women I have watched do some seriously incredible things in the career world. Alexandra Cavoulacos and Kathryn Minshew are the co-founders of the popular career website TheMuse.com. I think I have been reading TheMuse.com since it started on day 1. Being in the same career world for years, I am a little picky about the career websites I read. TheMuse.com is definitely a site that I admire and recommend to everyone for sharing great, quality content.

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I was honored to speak with them last week about the book. I asked some great questions that came in from our CCG readers such as how they would change the job search process and how we can improve those pesky job search applications. Who enjoys a 40-minute job application these days? No one!

We also today are celebrating their most recent book launch. Alexandra and Kathryn believe that with the right tools and perspective, anyone can find a job that fills them with meaning and purpose and blaze the kind of unique career path you can build yourself, not follow. If you have been listening to us at CCG you know that’s something I believe too. So this is going to be a fun discussion whether you are starting out in your career, looking to advance, navigating a mid-career shift or somewhere in between, today’s interview is going to help you thrive in the new world of work. So thank you, Alexandra and Kathryn, for being here!

About The New Rules of Work Book:

The New Rules of Work: The Modern Playbook for Navigating Your Career is about showcasing how to play the career game by the New Rules.

The New Rules of Work is the definitive guide to the ever-changing modern workplace, offering today’s professionals the tools they need to finding an amazing career path, discover the right companies and jobs, land a role that’s right for them, and wake up feeling excited to go to work every day.

About The Authors:

Alexandra Cavoulacos is the Founder & COO of TheMuse.com, where she leads the Product and Operations teams, creating and launching new features weekly. Alex has spoken on WNYC and at SxSW and was named one of INC’s 15 Women to Watch in Tech and Forbes 30 under 30. Prior to founding TheMuse, Alex was a management consultant at McKinsey & Company’s New York office. She graduated from Yale University and is an alumna of Y Combinator in Silicon Valley.

Kathryn Minshew is the CEO & Founder of TheMuse.com, a career platform and community helping 50+ million Millennials find inspiring careers at innovative companies. Kathryn has spoken at MIT and Harvard, has appeared on The TODAY Show and CNN, and contributes on career and entrepreneurship to the Wall Street Journal and the Harvard Business Review. She was previously named to INC’s 35 Under 35 and Forbes’ 30 Under 30 for two years in a row.

A few of the questions and answers from the Podcast:

Q: I would love to know what you do for personal development?

Alexandra: I love Pocket app to save articles for later. I also use Twitter and follow diverse people in different industries and fields that are geographically different. I also read medium.com and follow different people. I do some non-fiction book reading but I like articles because they are easily digestible. We also recently invested in working with an Executive Coach. We don’t have a boss to give us feedback so it’s helpful to have someone external to help us continue to grow. I also have a lot of mentors outside of the company.

Kathryn: Many of what I have learned is from peer mentors. I always recommend networking with other people in your field. The value of your peers is when you know each other well and you can be honest with each other.

Q: Are we losing that human relationship element for the speed and productivity and recruitment tools out there?

Kathryn: Yes. We hear from job searchers who submit 100 job applications. Is that the right way? No! We want individuals to put their personality and humanness up front and submit fewer quality applications. We want people to show that they know about the role they are applying for and are especially excited about working for the company.

Many companies have switched to massive tracking systems without giving attention to an individual and that’s one of the trends we have been trying to counter. Many HR professionals miss having one on one personal connections with applicants. We built The Muse to feed both sides of the equation. There is so much that can be improved so that we can move away from the transactional approach of job searching. Zappos is one company standing out by committing to get back to applicants in 24 hours.

Q: If there is one thing you could change about the job search process as a whole, what would it be?

Kathryn: The candidate experience and applicant tracking systems. You should be able to learn about a company before you apply. How can you make a decision with just a 300-word job description? Companies expect applicants to bend over backward when applying but they haven’t even told you anything about their company. Individuals should assume that companies will share about what they do too. Companies should share who is going to be successful here and who is not the best fit. Companies should be up front about the good and the bad so they hire people who really want to be there. We want to improve the experience of applying to a job. I would love to make 40-minute job application tracking systems a thing of the past.